Friday, August 31, 2007

Remaking the Iraqi police force?

They want to start over and remake the Iraqi police force at this point in the game.

What the heck is going on here?

Via New York Times:

Published: August 31, 2007

WASHINGTON, Aug. 30 — An independent commission established by Congress to assess Iraq’s security forces will recommend remaking the 26,000-member national police force to purge it of corrupt officers and Shiite militants suspected of complicity in sectarian killings, administration and military officials said Thursday.

The commission, headed by Gen. James L. Jones, the former top United States commander in Europe, concludes that the rampant sectarianism that has existed since the formation of the police force requires that its current units “be scrapped” and reshaped into a smaller, more elite organization, according to one senior official familiar with the findings. The recommendation is that “we should start over,” the official said.

This is one terrible mess! What is it going to cost to "reshape" this police force? What happens in Iraq while we're reshaping? What an indictment of Maliki's government. And HOW do you scrap an entire 26,000 men and start over? What do 26,000 men do while you're supposedly "fixing" the force?

Via Crooks and Liars:
We could disband the police force, but when we disbanded the Iraqi Armey [sic] in 2003, it generated a backlash that helped create the insurgency. The prospect of putting 26,000 well-armed, angry young men out of work, at our request, is, shall we say, unappealing.


Check out what Slate tells us about the report.


AnimeFreak40K said...


Are you TRYING to make my head esplode?!?

*sigh* bloody fools...

I do not know why they are talking about this NOW, in 2007, when in 2004 I was in Iraq reading reports about how insurgents were in the police and military and using that information given to them on patrols and such (as part of their job) to better plan their attacks and even provide communication.

These fucktards (excuse my language, but they are) do not seem to get the clue that the Middle East is one giant sectarian hotbed. I mean, these people have little to no concept (or care) of "King and Countrty". They care about their tribes, religion and family.

You set up a military force, you are going to get folks from all over the country joining up - and their views and loyalties will come with them. The same will happen with a police force.

"How do you scrap an entire 26,000 man force and start over?" Answer: You don't. Not easily. You scrap the force here is what is going to happen:
- The folks who were part of the problem will be pissed off and take revenge
- The folks who were NOT part of the problem (and therefore totally innocent) will think that they are being unjustly punished...and will be pissed off and take revenge.
- Every man will now be pissed off, looking for revenge AND will be jobless.

Simple math tells me that those 3 facts added together creates one HELL of a bloodbath.

The problem with wanting to start over, in addition to being a very bad idea, is that it won't work. It will only be a matter of time before you are right back where you started from.

The ONLY real solution is to find out who is being complicit in the killings, violence, etc. and you fire them. You rework your hiring process and you make your changes as you go.
It may be slower...but you will have a lot less angry, pissed off frusterated men with guns, no money and nothing but time on their hands.

I swear, sometimes I want to take these fools and slap them around the head for an hour or three with a sledge hammer.

the teach said...

When I read the article I felt just as you do -- how can they scrap the entire police force no matter if they are infiltrated with violent sectarians. How hard it must have been for you and all the Allied soldiers (my nephew included) to keep yourselves safe.

I remember when my nephew first went over to Iraq he was transporting men for training in the Iraqi police force or Army (they are two different groups right?)up near Fallujah. He's been home for 2 years now. He gets out next Sept. 2008.

Anyway, I did read somewhere that somebody suggested "retraining" the police force...that would be better, right?

I've also read that we ARE going to start bringing some troops home next year...I don't know where I read it...I'm going to do some searching now to see if I can find some more info on this "scrapping the police force" and "bringing troops home." Have a good weekend! :)

AnimeFreak40K said...

Oddly enough, I would not be as upset about this whole thing if I knew it were being managed properly.

Unfortunatly it is not. The generals that have tried to do the right thing with management and such are no longer in control. The officers below the generals can only follow their orders and that leaves the Enlisted with a wonderful serving of BOHICA (Bend Over, Here It Comes Again).

The reason why I say this, is because when I was in Iraq from February 2004 to March of 2005, I honestly felt we were making progress (such as it was), I was hopeful and things were getting done. I felt that the entire thing could be successful. But oddly enough, sometime between aobut 6 months after we got back in the US and now, things took one hell of a nose-dive...and all I can say is that "if 1st Cav were there, we wouldn't have let that happen...can the other units be that pathetic? I should hope NOT!"

Which brings me to my theory that a good portion of the people in charge (Cheney, various corporations) do not WANT success...they want the gravy train to keep running...and if there is success, that train would stop. By keeping things in a downward spiral (enough to give the hope of success - but not enough to actually see it happen), that train could go on as long as that balance is kept. And this can be done by putting politicians in charge and plenty of "Yes Men" in command.

All of this makes my head hurt...a lot. This is mostly because of the utter selfhish idiocy. Oddly enough, I would not find this an issue if we (that is the general populace, military, etc.) were receiving some sort of benifits...but we're not. We are being saddled with the burdens and suffering for these acts of greed. It really REALLY makes me want to denounce my citizenship and move to...some other country.

Anyway...screening and retraining would be a MUCH better solution to the whole situation than just disbanding the force and starting from scratch. Scrap your policies, scrap your current training standards and screening methods...but don't scrap the force.

the teach said...

I hope you aren't really right about Cheney and others not wanting success. Wanting things just the way they are so they can make money. Because many of you guys are giving your lives over there and it better not be for MONEY.

Anime, you don't want to give up your citizenship and leave the country. You can't cuz who would take your place, who would care so much, who would be so concerned about how our country is run and how we can stop the war and put someone good in the White House.

And what other country would be better? Huh?

I haven't found any other info about this scrapping of the Iraqi police force...I wish reporters would follow up on reports that they make. But I agree retraining of the force has to be the way to go.

Did you read my post for Sept. 1? Read it if you want and tell me how such a thing could happen...

AnimeFreak40K said...

Part of me hopes that I am wrong about Cheney and the rest...but it all makes too much sense (at least to me at any rate). Too many people up top benefit from this action and the fact that we went from "doing good and making a difference" to "utterly pathetic" is just too much to be ignored outright.

Maybe I am being TOO cynical...thinking TOO much about an Orwellian future...

But when one realizes that most wars were waged over money (if not directly, then indirectly), and the evidence is quite clear in the case of the Iraq war that it is an factor, one just has to think.

Mary, there come times when I really, REALLY want to not care anymore. When I want to just wash my hands of the whole thing and be done with it. It is hard and tiring to care...when one is surrounded by so many that simply do not care. It is even harder to care and try to speak out when surrounded by people that are so dense or stupid that they cannot ever hope to comprehend what I am saying.

It is frusterating, angering and quite tiring. Mary, I am 28 years old. In 2 months, I will be Dad is, right now, twice my age. My survivng grandfather is bloody ancient. I am more cynical and grim than they are.

I wish it was not so...but it is. I have little hope and faith in this country and there are times when I really do not think it is worth the effort.

Those are reasons why I REALLY think about leaving.

As far as other countries go...I know that there are few that are as good or better than the US, but they DO exist. I was considering Canada due to its proximity and they speak English (mostly) there. Canada has its own issues that are most likely just as harsh (if not moreso) than the problems in the US.

Another alternitive would be Australia/New Zeland/Tasmania. I had a friend of mine take a 2 week vacation there, and I have done some reasearch is not a bad place (in fact, Australia ranks better than the US in a number of ways). However, I am not a fan of some of their government practices (that is: you must, by law, vote. There is no HAVE to vote).


I'm just tired. Maybe it is because of the fact I live and work so close to the heart of corruption of this country =/

I skimmed over your article, and I have been fairly busy over the weekend up to this point. I wanted to read your post more in-depth and provide a good response. I will most likely do that tomorrow.

the teach said...

Anime, I'm here to tell you that we are NOT heading for an Orwellian future. It seems that way because BushCo are in the White House but they won't always be there, you know that.

Is this writing and commenting on what's happening in OUR country too much? Sometimes I think I spend too much time at it. My school semester (remember I'm a teacher?)is starting next week and I'm going to have to back off some. But I do love blogging and commenting, it's challenging. It gets me thinking and working out political problems. It keeps my brain alive but it doesn't get me down...

Sometimes it gets me tired, though, and maybe that's some of what you're feeling. You say you're busy this weekend...I hope it's with other things, friends, activities, etc.

Yup Canada or Australia, the only other places I MIGHT consider living. I've been to Australia -- a beautiful country, the people are a lot like us. BUT believe me they have their own problems, political and racial. You might hate the problems here in this country but they are OUR problems, you know?

You know I believe I'm a probably think I'm a Pollyanna (cock-eyed optimist). Ha!
But cynicism doesn't have to be grim.

The Cynics (Κυνικοί, Cynici) were an influential school of ancient philosophers in Greece. They rejected the social values of their time, often flouting conventions in shocking ways to prove their point.
The school was represented by men of strong individuality.

Cynicism emphasizes two principles: the absolute responsibility of the individual as the moral unit, and the autocracy of the will. These principles led Epictetus to commend Cynics as "athletes of righteousness". (This is not the righteousness of the religious fundamentalists.)

Okay I look forward, whenever you're ready, to get your take on the chemical agents found at the UN.